CII launches £2K non-exam route to Level 4

Rip Off

how can they justify £2k, for one day ??

Posted by: Mike Palmer

I will reserve my judgement BUT

I think this is a positive step by the CII and may result in me rejoining in due course. I still intend completing my Diploma using J02 and J03 and then the R's for Gap fill BUT, this does mean if a slight hiccup occurs, my CLIENTS will not be disadvantaged provided I am willing to pay the £2k if I'm short of points on 31st dec 2013. Whilst I will not like paying £2k if this is on top of doing the exams, it MAY (note I say may until I have seen what the assessment involves) rather answer the criticism from me and others on the granfathering issue. What would be particualry appropriate would be if areas of weakness where one still passes were identified OR perhaps even better a retiring adviser who specialises in one area alone could perhaps be tested on that area alone (in depth) and voluntaryilay restrict their areas of authorisation to only the areas they are tested in. As I say though reserved judgement, but a possible positive...

Posted by: Phil Castle

£2K for a day

The chap who complains about the CII charging £2000 for one day may need to think about how much commission he may be relieving from his clients' portfolios, whether at th outset or as trail. Do we not all get fed up with some IFAs wingeing about having to get qualified? Whilst the FSA is not perfect, I do belive that the sooner some advisers either get up to speed or get out of this industry, the better for all of us.

Posted by: A pro RDR IFA

Mike Palmer

Mike, This assessment process will see two trained assessors (Chartered Financial Planners) spending a full day with a candidate. You will appreciate that such a tailored service carries with it significantly more cost than tradioinal examinations. Specifically the cost of training the asessors, the cost of providing the assessors with the necessary hardware and software e.g. laptops, the cost of travel and other expenses, the cost of paying the asessors for their time, the cost of piloting, developing and launching an alternative assessment. Taking all of the above into account I think you're being unfair by suggesting this is a 'rip off'. The costs are comparable with alternative asessments offered by other professions.

Posted by: David Ross

So - this is not grandfathering?

The whole point about grandfathering was that experieced advisors could 'by pass' the current accepted route for appropriate qualifications. I remember this being done in the 1990's for those who refused to do the 'written' FPC route as opposed to the previous multi choice exams. Numerous exam structures later we are back to an element of grandfathering, albeit for those that are willing to spend a day 'chatting' and also willing to fork out 2K. Is the industry so scared of losing advisers that are willing to back down yet again. It was obvious that if enough people kicked up enough fuss over the run in period a 'get out' would be put on the table. Lets see, clients will now have the choice of being advised by advisers who have DIP Pfs and satisfy RDR by the established route, those that have done the R multi choice papers, those that have done the IFS route and those that have paid £2K and had chat about four clients. Hmmm. I long to see what they now bring out to make Chartered easier to attain. A single 100 question multi choice paper and a £5K fee perhaps. Or maybe a residential two day case study 'chat' at a costs of £5K all inclusive. Bargain.

Posted by: NJH

This seems a reasonable cost to me

providing of cours that the content is reasonably relevant and not so High falutin that most IFAs wouldn't come across such a scenario in a hundred years (in hwich case the proper response is surely to research and recommend an appropriately experienced specialist). To suggest that the cost of exams is a mere £1200 odd is a gross over simplification. Unless one has almost no family life at all, a large amount of the time spent studying has to remove the IFA from chargeable time and thus (I suspect) the opportunity cost is at least 10 times the exam cost. On that basis, £2,000 strikes me as a bargain.

Posted by: David L Williams

NJH

NJH, I can assure you that the Alternative Assessment is tough and the equal of the Diploma in Regulated Financial Planning offerd by the CII. We worked closely with the FSA, our assessors (Chartered Financial Planners) and our candidates to ensure that this was a genuine test that would be viewed as robust, credible and worthy of public confidence. It's worth pointing out that candidates are being assessed on the contents of a suite of exam RO units that equate to the first year of a degree. All of this over the course of a day. You may think that's easy but I can assure you, as Ian Highton makes clear in the article, that this is not a 'soft option' and successful candidates will have earned their qualification. David Ross Chartered Insurance Institute

Posted by: David Ross

David L Williams

David, The content will be the same as the examinations. And the content of the examinations mirrors exactly the specification laid down by the FSA last summer. We aren't changing what you're being tested on (only the regulator as the power to do that) we are just offering a different method of testing your knowledge and how you apply it. Hope that helps. David Ross Chartered Insurance Institute

Posted by: David Ross

To David Ross

As NJH and "Pro RDR IFA" seem to think the one day will be an easy option, why don't you offer to allow them to sit it for free and if they fail make them resit their diplomas as a JO exam from the start?

Posted by: Nameless

.

So what happens if you fail the exam? Do you fork out another £2,000 to resit??

Posted by: Simon

Simon

Simon, If you are unsuccessful with your first attempt and decide to re-submit yourself for a further alternative assessment then you will be asked to pay £1950 towards the costs. It is for this reason that we introduced a FREE pre-assessment diagnostic tool for anyone considering the alternative assessment, it helps potential candidates determine their suitability for this route and ensures they understand the requirements of what will be involved. This should ensure that anyone choosing this route is clear on what is expected of them BEFORE they pay. David Ross Chartered Insurance Institute

Posted by: David Ross

£2,000 a day

Having done a lengthy training course approved by the FSA to give me a training function in the FSA workplace I can assure you all that the current rate for compliance consultants etc to city firms and brokers is approximately £250 a day. So two planners = £500 a day. Who pockets the rest. The rubbish talked about having to supply lptops etc is meaningless. Anyone assessor of this so called calibre will have the technology and can be e-mailed the subject matter. I would be eminently capable of supplying this level of "challenging assessment" for less than £750 a day including a nice location to do it in, free lunch and if necessary a resit for £500 a day. ome on CII, be reasonable and honest about this. Who is being paid what out of the £2,000. I bet you won't answer in detail!

Posted by: Trained FSA trainer

FSA Trainer

FSA Trainer, Our assessors are Chartered Financial Planners - you are judged by your peers. I have explained how we arrived at the costs - you may not accept my explanation and that's your perogative. I'm not about to get into an argument over the specifics of how we arrived at the price. Suffice to say that the cost is based on the cost to the CII of delivery and your figures aren't accurate. We have launched the alternative assessment in response to a demand from advisers. It's a competitive market and this is a competitively priced alternative to exams.

Posted by: David Ross

Quoting the CII

Quoting David Ross - "It's a competitive market and this is a competitively priced alternative to exams". Is it me, or can I not see the plethora of alternatives out there in the market place? I wonder what the alternatives in this competitive market place are?

Posted by: Steve Bennet

Choice

Anyone who can meet the exacting standards of the FSA can launch an alternative asessment. The CII has been able to satisfy the regulator in order to offer a genuine alternative to the examination route. Some may argue that it's too expensive, too difficult, too easy, too complex, too short and any number of other things but the fact is that it offers advisers a new means of becoming RDR-compliant. Sorry to sound irritated but we've done the best we could to balance the needs of advisers with the needs of the FSA, whilst trying to build something that could actualy be delivered at a reasonable cost. We've created this in response to those advisers who hadn't done exams for many years and wanted to be able to evidence their knowledge in a different way. We didn't create this in isolation. In developing the alternative assessmenrt we sought input from existing advisers. We also sought to make use of Chartered Financial Planners. Anyone taking an alternative assessment will be sat across the table from a financial advice practitioner - you are being judged by your peers not by a trainer but someone who has experience of your world. We also worked with the FSA to ensure we created a suitably rigorous process that met their exacting standards. It also needed to be robust enough to enjoy public confidence and to be capable of standing up to the scrutiny of those advisers who were embarking on the examination route. For this reason it couldn't (and shouldn't) be a soft option. To date only a handful of advisers have sat the exam, some passed, some failed. I don't think it's a lot to ask that you reserve judgement on the alternative assessment until it has been up and running for a bit longer than 4 hours. David Ross Chartered Insurance Institute

Posted by: David Ross

Damned if you do and damned if you don't

Only a fool would damn David Ross and the CII without finding out more about this method first. Come on those of you who think it's the easy option and come on David Ross, why not get those who are criticising this route before even looking at what is involved to put their superior knowledge and exams to the test for free and see if they pass first time with flying colours.

Posted by: Namless